Curse

Andemius · Jul 02, 2012, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Hey all. As I'm sure people who frequent JQ are aware, bots have been running rampant there for quite a while. Whilst this was not as great a problem when they were just charging around in the middle or on the yellow peak guard posts, the newer N/A Bomber bots are quite a problem, as they can cap (inefficiently) but given a couple of them per team, they can put a lot of pressure on a quarry. In addition to this they are also more difficult to deal with. Even applying bleeding or stripping enchants is only so effective, particularly when there are 4 or so of them on a team.

I realize bots are not going away any time soon, anet seem to have no intention of even trying to ban them. The next reasonable step for me seems to be making it more difficult to enter automatically.

The only method I can imagine which would not be easy for botting programs to get around is a random number entry sort of thing. Like you would use for signing up for email addresses, forums and the like.

I know the more advanced bots people pay for will probably be able to circumvent this, but the easily downloadable ones hopefully would not be able to.

Thoughts?

Sagittario · Jul 02, 2012, 10:33 PM // 22:33

It took bots one day to fix /kneel spamming in Zin Ku while there's no favor.
This would only demotivate real people and slow them down.

Andemius · Jul 03, 2012, 12:14 AM // 00:14

That's not the same fix though. /kneel is the same command over and over, what I suggest would require something different to bypass, as it would be randomized.

Auron of Neon · Jul 04, 2012, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Bots break captcha without much trouble at all. In a week or two, the bots will still be botting, but ANet will have inconvenienced their entire playerbase by requiring them to fill out a captcha every time they want to enter a battle.

Classic case of hurting more than it helps.

Andemius · Jul 04, 2012, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Bots break captcha without much trouble at all

Be that as it may, something needs doing to decrease the bot population here. Another suggestion would be remove the Balthazar faction from the Imperial exchanger. If bots are less profitable, people are less inclined to run them.

I mean personally I'm in favor of a GM just coming and mass banning people who appear to be bots. It's been said many times that a half decent player can recognize a bot.

Premium Unleaded · Jul 04, 2012, 07:17 PM // 19:17

The source code for the APIs that all bots are based on are available on the web and have been for ages. The combination of that, the fact anyone with a modicum of intelligence about this game can recognise one and that they've pretty much just sat on this issue for years & years just shows they really don't care.
Don't forget, it's not just in JQ where it's rampant; there were the pblock bots of absolutely ages ago and the only difference is that in pve, it's easier to smokescreen because of very high/very low player traffic (toa & corridor) or entry is via an instanced (auspicious beginnings & rise).

Andemius · Jul 04, 2012, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

The source code for the APIs that all bots are based on are available on the web and have been for ages. The combination of that, the fact anyone with a modicum of intelligence about this game can recognise one and that they've pretty much just sat on this issue for years & years just shows they really don't care.
Don't forget, it's not just in JQ where it's rampant; there were the pblock bots of absolutely ages ago and the only difference is that in pve, it's easier to smokescreen because of very high/very low player traffic (toa & corridor) or entry is via an instanced (auspicious beginnings & rise).

True, but with the exception of rupt bots (which we're led to believe were dealt with immediately), those farming bots don't really impact players directly. I mean sure prices may rise and fall, but surely 80% of players left are farming just as the bots are/were. JQ and as mentioned, all PvP bots, directly affect player's game experience - thus making it less fun, unlike farming bots.

MithranArkanere · Jul 14, 2012, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Hm... maybe there could be three buttons instead one to join a match, each with a number, and a question about the mode on top of it. For example:

- How many quarries are in the map?
[2] [4] [3]

- How many minutes pass betwen resurrections?
[2] [0] [0.5]

- How many players are in each team?
[6] [12] [8]

All the question would be things you'll know if you watch the cinematic the NPC shows there, and the buttons would have the numbers shuffled each time. You'll have 10 seconds to answer.

This method to join would appear the first time you train to join after the method is added, and if you fail the question, you get a message telling you to watch the cinematic and pay more attention, some dishonor, and the three buttons again, until you get it right.

If you get it right, you won't get the method for a while, getting back the old single join button, unless you get reported or present bot-like behavior.

Wielder Of Magic · Jul 14, 2012, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Hm... maybe there could be three buttons instead one to join a match, each with a number, and a question about the mode on top of it. For example:

- How many quarries are in the map?
[2] [4] [3]

- How many minutes pass betwen resurrections?
[2] [0] [0.5]

- How many players are in each team?
[6] [12] [8]

All the question would be things you'll know if you watch the cinematic the NPC shows there, and the buttons would have the numbers shuffled each time. You'll have 10 seconds to answer.

This method to join would appear the first time you train to join after the method is added, and if you fail the question, you get a message telling you to watch the cinematic and pay more attention, some dishonor, and the three buttons again, until you get it right.

If you get it right, you won't get the method for a while, getting back the old single join button, unless you get reported or present bot-like behavior.

I like this idea.
Especially when its randomized so bots cannot exploit a certain pattern.

Andemius · Jul 14, 2012, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Hm... maybe there could be three buttons instead one to join a match, each with a number, and a question about the mode on top of it. For example:

- How many quarries are in the map?
[2] [4] [3]

- How many minutes pass betwen resurrections?
[2] [0] [0.5]

- How many players are in each team?
[6] [12] [8]

All the question would be things you'll know if you watch the cinematic the NPC shows there, and the buttons would have the numbers shuffled each time. You'll have 10 seconds to answer.

This method to join would appear the first time you train to join after the method is added, and if you fail the question, you get a message telling you to watch the cinematic and pay more attention, some dishonor, and the three buttons again, until you get it right.

If you get it right, you won't get the method for a while, getting back the old single join button, unless you get reported or present bot-like behavior.

Yep, this is a nice idea. I'm sure some clever bots could read it, but it sounds pretty good to me.

Winner · Jul 17, 2012, 08:20 AM // 08:20

I just want to click enter and play, I definitely don't want any captchas or anything similar.

/not signed

Bad Joe · Jul 22, 2012, 06:54 PM // 18:54

+1 for captcha

filling the captcha is 5 sec, loosing the game because the bots 10 min

Amy Awien · Jul 30, 2012, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Hm... maybe there could be three buttons instead one to join a match, each with a number, and a question about the mode on top of it. For example:

You're hitting new players more then bots.

Quote:

- How many quarries are in the map?
[2] [4] [3]

I wouldn't have know that the first couple of times I played.

Quote:

- How many minutes pass betwen resurrections?
[2] [0] [0.5]

I would not know, as far as I know resurrection is almost immediate. Wouldn't have guessed it the first match

Quote:

- How many players are in each team?
[6] [12] [8]

That depends on the number of bots

Quote:

All the question would be things you'll know if you watch the cinematic the NPC shows there,

Doubtfull, these cinematics really have a lot of information in a short time, and usually you don't know what is important untill you've played it. And I think they play after you join? Maybe questions made up after viewing them as a 'first time player' will work.

Maybe 'photo's' of heroes and other npc's in funny situations, like Jin slapping Sosuke and the player has to give the name of whom was not in the picture ((1)Jinn (2) Magrid (3) Sosuke).

Attracting new players to the PvP formats should be the top priority, not deterring them.

Andemius · Jul 31, 2012, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Attracting new players to the PvP formats should be the top priority, not deterring them.

You're not going to attract new players to a format being overrun by bots.

Amy Awien · Jul 31, 2012, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

You're not going to attract new players to a format being overrun by bots.

They will not notice it before they're hooked

Without new players, in time only bots will remain

Use a method that doesn't make it harder for new players to join the format then it already is

spun ducky · Jul 31, 2012, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Hm... maybe there could be three buttons instead one to join a match, each with a number, and a question about the mode on top of it. For example:

- How many quarries are in the map?
[2] [4] [3]

- How many minutes pass betwen resurrections?
[2] [0] [0.5]

- How many players are in each team?
[6] [12] [8]

All the question would be things you'll know if you watch the cinematic the NPC shows there, and the buttons would have the numbers shuffled each time. You'll have 10 seconds to answer.

This method to join would appear the first time you train to join after the method is added, and if you fail the question, you get a message telling you to watch the cinematic and pay more attention, some dishonor, and the three buttons again, until you get it right.

If you get it right, you won't get the method for a while, getting back the old single join button, unless you get reported or present bot-like behavior.

The Captcha is a terrible idea, however this one would be even easier to break with the current api available to coders. I could personally beat this in about 5 minutes lol.

Andemius · Aug 01, 2012, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by spun ducky

The Captcha is a terrible idea, however this one would be even easier to break with the current api available to coders. I could personally beat this in about 5 minutes lol.

And yet something needs doing. If you can break this, suggest what would stop people.